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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I ordered a Motoalliance Viper Max 5000 pound widespool winch for the Viking. I also have the winch mounting plate that emp sells through motoalliance. I have the Yamaha front brush guard and my problem is that the winch hits the mounting brackets of the brush guard. Is anyone else having this problem? I wish they would warn you about this when ordering the winch. I called Motoalliance today and they said that they would have someone call me back to talk to me about this problem and no one ever called me.
I really don't want to start grinding the brush guard down since it has a really nice powder coat finish on it.
My other question is anyone running a standard width Viper 5000 winch with a Yamaha brush guard? Does that one clear or does it hit as well?
 

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Indeed. Do a search on "winch installation" and you'll find a really comprehensive thread started by Narrowsboy. He did a really nice job of grinding down the brush guard to make it fit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I thought I did that before as I like to research stuff to death before I drop money but I will do it again. Thank you.
 

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Yes I did have to modify the brush guard to make the wide spool fit. I spent some time to make it look like it was supposed to be notched out and applied some paint to the bare metal. From the math I provided to someone else on this forum I don't believe there is any concerns with the regular spool width from Viper.



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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes I did have to modify the brush guard to make the wide spool fit. I spent some time to make it look like it was supposed to be notched out and applied some paint to the bare metal. From the math I provided to someone else on this forum I don't believe there is any concerns with the regular spool width from Viper.



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Nice work. Well since Motoalliance is just not returning my calls I guess I will be going this this route. I don't know what is going on with them lately. Ive heard nothing but great things about their customer service but lately they have been horrible about returning my calls and even some messages. Not good.
 

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I am betting they ( MA) are in their war room trying to figure out a tangible fix. The last thing they would want to do is tell you "it is what it is". That would fly like a lead balloon to you.

It looks like the correction will need to be in correspondence with the brushguard manufacturer and MA's product. These are some of the " Bumps" that aftermarket folk's go through. The consumer doesn't always use OEM parts. ( specific winch's, rims,lights..ect..ect) We, especially ME, are trying to " Customize" to make it Bigger & Better. Every now and then I get outside the box.

Hang in there, I believe they will make it right.....:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I am betting they ( MA) are in their war room trying to figure out a tangible fix. The last thing they would want to do is tell you "it is what it is". That would fly like a lead balloon to you.

It looks like the correction will need to be in correspondence with the brushguard manufacturer and MA's product. These are some of the " Bumps" that aftermarket folk's go through. The consumer doesn't always use OEM parts. ( specific winch's, rims,lights..ect..ect) We, especially ME, are trying to " Customize" to make it Bigger & Better. Every now and then I get outside the box.

Hang in there, I believe they will make it right.....:)
They left me a voicemail and told me to talk to EMP since they made the mount. To me that is pretty much an "it is what it is" answer.
Even though I bought that plate from MotoA they are pawning me off on someone else. Im pretty much done with them. They didn't even offer to exchange it for a standard width winch.
 

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They left me a voicemail and told me to talk to EMP since they made the mount. To me that is pretty much an "it is what it is" answer.
Even though I bought that plate from MotoA they are pawning me off on someone else. Im pretty much done with them. They didn't even offer to exchange it for a standard width winch.
I understand, sure hate to hear that.
 

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I set up a dealer account with them and ordered a standard width 4500 lb "max" winch from them. Had to order the "max" because they are out of stock on the 5k in both the "max" and the "ultimate" both regular and widespool. The next issue was with color of the rope, neither my first, second nor third choices of rope color were available (even though their website listed all 3 as available and ready to ship). I would have to say after talking to them on the phone, I heard more excuses regarding their lack of product availability than I thought it was possible to give. Needless to say I settled on the 4500lb, had it overnighted to me (at considerable cost) and was excited to get it installed.

When I opened the box, I was floored by the lack of packing material. The mount plated had separated from the "blister pack" and the powdercoat was damaged. I overlooked that since I do own paint cans and have a local powder coat company that does me good on pricing. Next I opened the actual winch box expecting to find a premier product with detailed installation instructions. Instead I found the parts basically slung into the box with no care for packing and the instructions were as generic as you could possibly make them. Thankfully, I have installed many a winch in the past so I was able to sort it all out even without their instructions. Had I given this winch to one of my customers to install on their own, I would have had a very upset customer.

Probably one of the most disappointing purchases I have made in recent years, and I would have to say I doubt I will continue to do business with them.

Sorry to hear that your experience was equally unsatisfactory.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I set up a dealer account with them and ordered a standard width 4500 lb "max" winch from them. Had to order the "max" because they are out of stock on the 5k in both the "max" and the "ultimate" both regular and widespool. The next issue was with color of the rope, neither my first, second nor third choices of rope color were available (even though their website listed all 3 as available and ready to ship). I would have to say after talking to them on the phone, I heard more excuses regarding their lack of product availability than I thought it was possible to give. Needless to say I settled on the 4500lb, had it overnighted to me (at considerable cost) and was excited to get it installed.

When I opened the box, I was floored by the lack of packing material. The mount plated had separated from the "blister pack" and the powdercoat was damaged. I overlooked that since I do own paint cans and have a local powder coat company that does me good on pricing. Next I opened the actual winch box expecting to find a premier product with detailed installation instructions. Instead I found the parts basically slung into the box with no care for packing and the instructions were as generic as you could possibly make them. Thankfully, I have installed many a winch in the past so I was able to sort it all out even without their instructions. Had I given this winch to one of my customers to install on their own, I would have had a very upset customer.

Probably one of the most disappointing purchases I have made in recent years, and I would have to say I doubt I will continue to do business with them.

Sorry to hear that your experience was equally unsatisfactory.....
I just don't get it. Most people on this forum seem to have had decent experiences with them. How are we the unlucky ones? I agree with the packaging of the products. Motoalliance got into my wallet for a heater that was a major pain in the ass and a winch. I don't forsee them getting any more of my money.
 

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to be honest I went to them because so many people were bragging about both the customer service and the outstanding performance of the Viper Winch. The customer service seemed lacking and the packaging of the product, both in the product box and the shipping box, has me seriously concerned about the long term quality of the winch.
 

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Sorry you had such a bad time with them. My experiences were excellent when I bought my plow and mount.

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I just don't get it. Most people on this forum seem to have had decent experiences with them. How are we the unlucky ones? I agree with the packaging of the products. Motoalliance got into my wallet for a heater that was a major pain in the ass and a winch. I don't forsee them getting any more of my money.
Don't feel bad, your not the only one. I purchased one of those firestorm heaters and half of parts were missing. MA did ship the missing parts but my install was delayed for to long. I'm looking for a plow set-up now and I'm not to sure about MA.
 

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Went out playing on the Viking this weekend, had plenty of chances to use the new viper winch. Sadly I am even more disappointed than I was before.

We had the Viking buried to the doors in mud, so I figured this was the perfect chance to test out the winch and see exactly what it was capable of. Stung out about 30 feet of line to the nearest tree, stood outside the machine to lessen the weight of the pull. engaged the winch for no more than 30 seconds at a time and after 30 minutes of pulling the Viking had moved about 10 feet. Considering that the next 10 feet was going to be even worse to pull through, I had another rider stage their quad with a 4k Warn Winch on it to assist. The idea being if 1 winch was good, 2 would be even better. I thought the best plan was to alternate pulls. Use the Viper for 30 seconds, then the Warn winch for 30 seconds. Thankfully (for me at least) the other rider decided that after 15 minutes of watching the Viper struggle to make any headway with the pull, they were gonna pull me the rest of the way out on their own. They started the Warn on the pull in and within about 5 minutes of continual pulling, the Viking was on solid enough ground to get out on it's own (note to anyone thinking of "mudding" with the Viking, when they bottom out, they are well and truly stuck).

Long story short, the Warn 4k outperformed the Viper 4.5k on shear pulling power, and even after a hard pull the motor on the warn was only mildly warm whereas the Viper winch was hot enough to steam water even with continual stopping for cool down.
 

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I'm surprised they aren't on here explaining why things have happened the way they did. I haven't got any experience with them at all. But with them not jumping in on here tells me they might be in shambles and on the ropes.


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Hey Guys I put on a Warn Pro Vantage 4500 with a KFI Products winch plate. Bolted in simple! I also put a Warn Wireless Remote control in, I have used these for years. Throw that wired one in the back a put a wireless in. You won't be unhappy.
The KFI Winch plate requires two holes to be drilled for the big winches but it accomodates lots of different winches.

Go to KFI.com and type in Viking. It Lists at $49.95

I was out on the weekend and nothing stopped the Warn. Huge trees across the trail yanked em off easy.
 

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yeah, I think I am going back to Warn when I replace the winch. Seems a shame since everyone kept telling me that the Viper was such a kick ass product.

Tech Man, I know they are on these forums and obviously they have to have read this thread, makes me wonder as well why they wouldn't get back to us with a response to any of this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Went out playing on the Viking this weekend, had plenty of chances to use the new viper winch. Sadly I am even more disappointed than I was before.

We had the Viking buried to the doors in mud, so I figured this was the perfect chance to test out the winch and see exactly what it was capable of. Stung out about 30 feet of line to the nearest tree, stood outside the machine to lessen the weight of the pull. engaged the winch for no more than 30 seconds at a time and after 30 minutes of pulling the Viking had moved about 10 feet. Considering that the next 10 feet was going to be even worse to pull through, I had another rider stage their quad with a 4k Warn Winch on it to assist. The idea being if 1 winch was good, 2 would be even better. I thought the best plan was to alternate pulls. Use the Viper for 30 seconds, then the Warn winch for 30 seconds. Thankfully (for me at least) the other rider decided that after 15 minutes of watching the Viper struggle to make any headway with the pull, they were gonna pull me the rest of the way out on their own. They started the Warn on the pull in and within about 5 minutes of continual pulling, the Viking was on solid enough ground to get out on it's own (note to anyone thinking of "mudding" with the Viking, when they bottom out, they are well and truly stuck).

Long story short, the Warn 4k outperformed the Viper 4.5k on shear pulling power, and even after a hard pull the motor on the warn was only mildly warm whereas the Viper winch was hot enough to steam water even with continual stopping for cool down.
Oh man, this truly sucks to hear. I finally got my Moto 5K pound winch bolted up and not even wired up yet and im already getting discouraged. I read so many people saying that the Viper winches were awesome and now im hearing otherwise. That just blows. I swear to god if this winch fails me I will be on ever forum that I can find to get the word out and let people know the truth.
 

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Hey Guys,
I just got alerted to this link. I had zero idea what was going on here or would have chimed in much, much sooner.

A few things at the moment that (I hope) speak to the value/quality of our company as I engage here:

Motoalliance Reputation/Partners
1. We have over 400 dealers of our products and we don't use distributors. We have almost zero marketing budget. Dealers have found us on their own and we are growing daily by word-of-mouth. The only way we grow this way is if we have good products and satisfied customers. In a world where companies have so often gone crappy and cheap, we've tried to go the other way.

Motoalliance Sales
We sell nearly 8,000 VIPER winches a year, over 1500 DENALI plows, and about 500 cab heaters this past year with the VIKING being the most popular -- this despite not getting them out until November/December. We have tens of thousands of products in the field over nine years. I know I hate getting crap from the internet and I've made it a personal mission to make sure we aren't sending out crap.

Motoalliance Customer Service Philosophy
With that many products in the field, we will (like all companies) not be perfect. But when we make a mistake, we will ALWAYS stand behind our products. I don't know of any other owners/presidents of off-road companies that are regularly on the boards and willing to stand up to any "heat" given. I am that confident in our products that I know we can make it right.


Motoalliance Shipping/Packing Mistakes
We experienced about 3 months of significant shipping problems this past year. Why? Not because we are in shambles. :) It's EXACTLY the opposite....it's because our business doubled from about $3,000,000 annually to $6,000,000 in just 9-12 months and still growing like crazy. We were thrilled but it put a major strain on operations....as such crazy growth often does. So we did make some shipping mistakes as described in this forum thread -- missing parts, packaging issues, etc. This is because we were temporarily understaffed, and new employees didn't understand all the systems. But we've made the necessary hires over the past month to rectify this and things are back to normal.

Motoalliance Inventory
We struggled to keep inventory available for about 4 months. We needed to have about $1,500,000 in inventory but the bank only extended us a $200,000 line of credit for purchase. To make matters worse, logistics companies were a disaster the past six months. You can do a simple Google search to see this. Shipments delayed for weeks/months.

But the bank just extended our line of credit to $500,000 for purchases since they finally acknowledge or growth. At the end of the day, we don't want to use any bank money, but we will and we are close to normalizing our inventory again.

Motoalliance Loyalty
Why do so many people brag about our products here? Because they historically have just really been that good.....not perfect....but really good. We get so many repeat customers and referrals and I am SO grateful for that. In a difficult economy, I'm incredibly grateful for our growth and I DO NOT take that lightly or for granted.



Okay, so all that said, I'm accountable here and I understand that. So here we go:

Problem #1: Packaging
The first problem, as I understand above, is that there were missing parts and poor packaging. Again, the issue was new employees. This has been sorted and is unacceptable. It's not the way we do business. I tell our team all the time that when the customer opens the box, they should have a ton of pride. We just spent considerable cost upgrading all our plow packaging for next season and will not be passing along that cost to you.

Problem #2: Winch Performance
Sounds like one winch did not perform well. Not sure what would have happened here. There can be different issues -- some related to the winch, some not. Did anyone talk with our technical support? I've heard more stories than I can count about how our VIPERS outperformed anything else out there. But we have had VIPERS that needed warranty too, over the years. I would say we are about 1 out of every 250 that are described above -- or a 99.75% success rate. While I want 100%, I am happy with that too....and we will take care of you.

Problem #3: Mount Issue
I am putting the winch mount issue to DEFCON 1. I have not heard of this issue since we started selling the EMP mount. I'm off site but am contacting our lead engineer and tech support today to get answers on this. We've sold so many VIKING winches, I'm amazed I haven't seen this before. So we'll see what I find.

Problem #4: Product Inventory
Mentioned above with additional cash available and normalization of ocean freight. We are fully stocked again on winches except for EX4500-SE and MX5000-SE. We have nearly $1,000,000 in winch orders coming or on order.



Okay, I hope some of that helps. To reiterate.

1. I apologize for any issues......I will always stand behind our stuff. No excuses....I will give explanations, but no excuses.
2. Our rapid growth has been digested and packaging.shipping issues should be resolved.
3. Our products are incredibly popular. We've grown through word-of-mouth which is only possible if products are good. Offroad is a tight world. Our products HAVE to perform well.


Hope that helps. We have a ton of great VIKING products here or coming. And out of goodwill, I am offering 15% off anything we carry to those who read this forum between now and May 15. Just PM me if you want anything from us.

I will be monitoring this thread now too and will continue chiming in.

Best regards.
 
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