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Ethanol or none Ethanol

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay what's everyone running and tell me why. I try to run none Ethanol 90 grade... Last fill up was with ethanol but was 93. I had issue in marine boats with ethanol and fuel lines. I'm going back to none ethanol just because of the cutout issue I had after the last fill up with ethanol gas.
 

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I don't think your issue is coming from ethanol fuel unless you let it sit for months on end. I've never had issues with ethanol but use all my stuff regularly. Did water/dirt get in your intake housing somehow from a loose clamp or in your tank from deep water riding somehow. I've run 93 in my lawn stuff, chain saw an viking. Also in my other 4wheelers since it was introduced an have never had any issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Nahhh all clean. I just think long term ethanol is crap. My cutout issue I'm about 100% sure was a electrical issue after my hood came off water was pouring in there. I know my dealer said use none ethanol if I could.
 

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Hey Whitewind when you say 90 and 93 is that octane rating or percentage of petrol/ethanol (not sure how you guys class it in the US). I run 98 octane in mine when I can and would never put ethanol blend in my Viking, one 'cause it sucks up water and two because I've seen the damage it does to rubber fuel lines injectors etc, although that was in older vehicles that weren't necessarily designed for ethanol, it may well be safe in the Viking.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yeah octane. Dude 98 octane with no ethanol that's good stuff right there! I agree with ya man. I had issue just in marine applications.
 

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Where are you getting non ethanol gas????

Also, anything more than 87 octane in your Viking is doing nothing but costing you more money

Do you Really Need the "Good "Stuff?

or:

You Really Can Fool Some of the People All of the Time



"The swami has been hearing a lot of nonsense around the gas pumps these days. People are tanking up with the "good" stuff because the commercials imply that it's better for their engine. When the oil companies use superlatives like "Super", "Extra" and "High"...well it must be better, right? And of course they wouldn't be charging $0.10 - $0.20 more unless they were putting some really good stuff in there, right? Sorry...NOT!

"High Octane" is not synonymous with "good" or "better", and does not mean that it is better for your engine! And the chances are pretty good you don’t need high octane fuel in your scooter.

High-octane fuels only become necessary when your engine has a high compression ratio. It’s a very long and complicated story…that the swami will make short.

First important fact that you must accept:

All gasoline, regardless of its’ octane rating, have pretty much the same amount of energy per gallon. What!!! "Sacrilege" you say? Well, actually, some higher-octane fuels have a few LESS percent energy per gallon…so as not to argue over this small point, for the sake of this discussion we will all agree that the automotive gasoline that you buy at the pump, regardless of octane rating, has the same amount of potential energy.

Second important fact that you must accept:

Octane is NOT a measure of power but of the fuels’ resistance to ignition from heat. A higher-octane fuel, under identical combustion chamber conditions, will burn slower.

How can this be? If all of the above is true, how do we get more power out of high octane gasoline? We do, don’t we?

Well…yes we do. Here’s how:

But first you must understand "heat of compression". There is a 2,000 year old fire starting device that still amazes the swami. A length of bamboo was hollowed out leaving one end capped. A stick, about the same length as the bamboo, was whittled down until it fit snugly into the bamboo cylinder. A bit of dried grass or wood shavings were placed in the bottom of the bamboo cylinder and the snugly fitting stick was violently rammed down the bamboo tube. The heat generated from rapidly compressing the air in the tube was sufficient to ignite the tinder.

The same thing can happen in the cylinder of an engine. The piston, quickly squeezing the fuel/air mixture into a small space, can generate enough heat of compression to ignite the fuel well before the spark plug fires, with unpleasant results. If the fuel prematurely ignites while the piston is on its way up, the burning of the fuel, in conjunction with the rising piston, creates even more pressure, resulting in a violent explosion. This explosion is equivalent to hitting the top of the piston with a very large hammer. If you want to be able to see through the top of your piston, ignore those sounds that are usually called: "pre-ignition", "ping" or "engine knock". Trust me on this one; in his reckless youth, using this method, the swami turned a few pistons into paper weights.

What we really want is a very rapid burn of the fuel, not an explosion. And we want the burning of the fuel to take place while the piston is in a better position to convert this pressure into productive work, like on its way down. Think of this burning as a very fast "push" on the top of the piston. Despite the violent noises you hear from some exhaust systems, it really is a rapid push on the top of the piston making the crankshaft go around, not explosions.

So that we can ignite the fuel at exactly the right time with the spark plug, instead of from the heat of compression, they put stuff into gasoline to keep it from igniting prematurely. The more resistant the fuel is to ignition from the heat of compression, the higher its octane rating.

Are you with me so far?

Higher compression ratios = higher combustion chamber pressures = higher heat… and it is with these higher combustion chamber temperatures that the magic happens.

At higher temperatures the fuel is burned more efficiently. So, while it’s true that the higher-octane fuel does not posses any more energy than low octane fuel, the increased octane allows the extraction of more of the potential energy that has always been there. Conversely, lower compression ration engines utilize a little less of the fuel energy potential (2-4% reduction) but there is also less heat generated in the combustion process.

So how do you know if you need high-octane fuel? The swami suggests you look in the owners’ manual! Manufacturers really do want you to get the maximum efficiency out of your engine. They do their best to give a good balance between horsepower and engine life. It’s in their best interests to do so.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT to using a higher octane than your engine needs. The only benefit is increased profits to the oil companies that have cleverly convinced some of the public that their new "Super-Duper, Premium-High-Test, Clean-Burning, Used-By-Famous-Racing-Types-All-Around-The-World, Extra-Detergent-Laden-Keep-Your-Pipes-Clean, Extra-High-Octane" fuel is your engines’ best friend. The swami is telling you the truth, don’t listen to that talking cartoon car.

The swami hears people insisting that they got better mileage, better acceleration, and less dental plaque by switching to a high-octane fuel. The swami reminds these people that in every pharmacy is a special miracle pill that is often prescribed by doctors, it works wonders because people believe that it works wonders; it’s called a "placebo". The swami warns: never confuse faith with physics!

If you are getting pinging or knocking with what should be the correct octane for your engine, start by checking the ignition timing, also check that the spark plug is the correct heat range. For 2-strokes, check for excessive carbon build-up on the top of the piston, the carbon takes up space and increases the compression ratio.

If all is well and correct, and you still are getting knocking, then try the next higher octane. You won’t go faster, you won’t go farther, but you will prevent an unsightly hole in your piston.


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nice, informative post........ thanks!
 

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It is pretty clear in the owners manual that you are only supposed to user regular gas.
 

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I use 87 octane non ethanol in everything I own. From truck, to Grizzly, Viking, chain saws and generators.

Why?

There is a gas station 6.5 miles from my house that sells it and I pass by it everyday on my way to work. Its just too convenient. It makes a difference in my F-150 with 5.4L. I reset odometer at every fill up and average about 50 miles farther per tank with non ethanol gas.
 

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I use 87 octane non ethanol in everything I own. From truck, to Grizzly, Viking, chain saws and generators.

Why?

There is a gas station 6.5 miles from my house that sells it and I pass by it everyday on my way to work. Its just too convenient. It makes a difference in my F-150 with 5.4L. I reset odometer at every fill up and average about 50 miles farther per tank with non ethanol gas.
Nice! Where do you live?
 

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Yeah thanks Ultratec I do realise all that, I use 98 octane in my WR450's which have 12.5:1 compression ratio, it makes a big difference to performance in them and any less octane they ping their heads off. I also used to use AvGas at 100 octane when I was racing. I use 98 in my Ford car at times (not often, it's not worth it), it definitely has better acceleration on 98 than what it has on say 95 or 91, it also pings on the lower octane.

Just thought I'd try it in the Viking see if there's any performance gains, which as you said, there probably isn't.

In Australia we don't have much Ethanol. We have 91, 95 with 10% Ethanol, 96, and 98, all readily available and apart from the 95 contain no ethanol. We also pay about $1.50 per liter and sometimes a $1.70 for 98, so what's that, about $6 or $7 a gallon!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
None ethanol all over here in KY. Now on octane rating in compression and timing you need it for performance. Less knock. I agree a stock viking does not need high octane but I think it likes none ethanol fuel. I can run none Ethanol fuel in my Silverado and get 1-2mpg more than ethanol fuel. Take more reach 14.7afrs. Like E85 I get crap mpg. But if I was tuning a race car E85 all the way! Who cares about mpg then.
 
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