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Heater

56K views 130 replies 23 participants last post by  z1turbocat 
#1 ·
Bought a heater from Moto A this week. Im trying to decide if I feel ambitious enough to do the install this weekend. Its cold in that garage! I may need to stock up on beer and load up some good tunes for this one.
 
#3 ·
Got the Firestorm heater all hooked up from Motoalliance this weekend. So far not very happy with it. After going through the instructions over and over im almost wondering if they have ever put one on a Viking. Seems like im the first one that is doing it. Instructions weren't very good. The heat that mine puts out is less than impressive. Barely warm. when driving and cold at idle. Ill have to get a hold of them and try to troubleshoot this thing. In the instructions they talk about the upper radiator hose and the lower radiator hose. On the Viking both hoses are right in the middle of the tanks of the radiator so really there is no upper or lower. Grrrrrrr!!!!!
 
#11 ·
Well I was able to get some air out of the system by continuing to divert the flow of coolant from the engine only through the heater core instead of the radiator by pinching off the radiator hoses. Under cruising speed I was able to get the vent temps up to 135-140 degrees. The motoalliance video shows duct output temps of over 180 degrees.
One thing that Im not sure of and am waiting to hear from motoalliance about it which hose on the Viking is the radiator inlet and which is the radiator outlet. They are both very similar in temp. One would think the radiator inlet should be considerably warmer than the outlet. Does anyone know which is which? The instructions say to run heater core inlet hose to the upper radiator hose. Viking radiator hoses are both mounted to the middle of each radiator tank. Motoalliance states that if you cross the hoses it could reduce your heater output by up to 25 percent.
 
#13 ·
So what I'm hearing is that you don't interrupt the flow to the radiator, which would divert the water through the heater core...then to the radiator? What you seem to be saying is that you tap into the water line and then some of the water flows into the heater core, while some still flows into the radiator? I did read somewhere that getting all of the air out of the system was critical. I saw that some Folks were jacking the front of the machine way up and then cracking the radiator cap. That way all of the air bubbles went to the highest point.

I'm pretty sure these have a thermostat, so you should be able to tell which line is which by starting the engine and then feeling both water lines. One should get noticeably hot before the other.
 
#14 ·
So what I'm hearing is that you don't interrupt the flow to the radiator, which would divert the water through the heater core...then to the radiator? What you seem to be saying is that you tap into the water line and then some of the water flows into the heater core, while some still flows into the radiator? I did read somewhere that getting all of the air out of the system was critical. I saw that some Folks were jacking the front of the machine way up and then cracking the radiator cap. That way all of the air bubbles went to the highest point.

I'm pretty sure these have a thermostat, so you should be able to tell which line is which by starting the engine and then feeling both water lines. One should get noticeably hot before the other.
Yes, the kit comes with two Y fittings that you have to cut both radiator hoses and put the Y inline. Then on the remaining nipple of the fitting is where you put the heater hose that goes to the heater core.
And yes Ive had the front of this thing jacked up the entire time. I put a call into my dealer to figure out which hose is the inlet to the radiator. They weren't 100 percent sure but they thought it was probably the drivers side hose.
Ive got an enclosure coming next week sometime so we'll see how it does when the heat is not escaping.
Motoalliance video shows 180 degree duct temp on a 20 degree day. Yesterday I was getting 135 degrees on a 55 degree day. I called yesterday and some lady took down my info. No call back yet as of today. Everytime I read other forums that talk about problems with these the number one Moto A response is, "that's weird, we've sold millions of those without any problems". Telling me your sales numbers does me no good to help fix my problem.
 
#16 ·
Nytroboy I have the Viking service manual at home. This evening I will confirm which hose is the inlet and which is the outlet. The engine also has bleed screws to let air out of the system. I will get back to you with both.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Hope these 3 pictures help you out. The inlet to the rad is the side with rad cap. The other side returns to the motor. There is two places to let air out one on the water pump and one on the thermostats housing
 

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#22 ·
Hope these 3 pictures help you out. The inlet to the rad is the side with rad cap. The other side returns to the motor. There is two places to let air out one on the water pump and one on the thermostats housing
Narrowsboy you are awesome! Thank you for posting that. That helps a lot. Well at least I know that I have it plumed correctly. Im going to try those bleeders to see if I can get out any more air.
 
#21 ·
Nytroboy, been doing some research and it seems as thought the most common reason for lack of heat is air in the system. I don't know what this does but I also found a couple places where it was recommended to fill the core with water a then vigorously shake it to pre-coat/wet the inside of the core??? One guy even used a garden hose to force water through before he installed it.

Don't know if any of this helps...just thought I would throw it out there? I really want/need this to work because I too am trying to keep my wife and daughter happy!
 
#24 ·
Nytroboy, been doing some research and it seems as thought the most common reason for lack of heat is air in the system. I don't know what this does but I also found a couple places where it was recommended to fill the core with water a then vigorously shake it to pre-coat/wet the inside of the core??? One guy even used a garden hose to force water through before he installed it.

Don't know if any of this helps...just thought I would throw it out there? I really want/need this to work because I too am trying to keep my wife and daughter happy!
I actually did do the garden hose thing. Also filled the Y's up to the top with coolant before I put them on. Held the hoses up high, filled them with coolant and put my thumb over the hose before quickly putting them on the fittings. Also took four hose pinch off tools to pinch the radiator hoses off before I cut into them. If air got into this thing it had to be a minimal amount. I ran it for a long time with cap off and front jacked up as high as the jack would take it. Im a forklift mechanic by trade so stuff like this isn't foreign to me. Im just used to getting paid to deal with crap like this. LOL!
For the record, still no call back from Motoalliance today. Maybe tomorrow will be my day?
On a side note I noticed that when I have the Viking sitting in one spot idling for a long time the EPS light come on and I have no power steering. Once I take it out on the street and start driving it the power steering comes back and the light shuts off. Talked to my dealer about that and he stated that is suppose to happen. Something about the EPS powers down if the steering is not used for a while. I thought that was interesting.
 
#26 ·
Hey Gang,
So sorry! I just got alerted to this message yesterday and I'm currently on spring break vacation with my family. We don't always see what's going on in the forums because I only get notified of a post if I've posted myself. I had no idea this was going on.

From a macro-perspective, we've probably sold around 500 heaters this year and the vast majority have been so great. Any heater installation can be challenging (we make no bones about this), and we are doing our best to help everyone that has a challenge. I would say about 5-10% of people call in because they aren't getting the heat they want. That can be for a variety of issues.....and we have a lot of troubleshooting options.

One of the biggest problems can be "machine variance." Polaris is brutal for not producing the same machine in the same way twice. Making a sleek, well-fitted bumper has proved challenging because all the front ends have slight variances. I would imagine that's true of most machines -- Vikings too -- and can play into heating.

But we have a great tech and lead engineer. I'm going to copy this thread for them and get them on it tonight/tomorrow.

Thanks for the support guys....what I know for sure is these things have been very well received and are even sold through Cabela's.....so they are the real deal.
 
#27 ·
Just wanted to let the rest of you know that I went on the Moto Alliance site and sent an e-mail directly to them/Peter. I received and e-mail response within 30 minutes...and this was posted directly afterwards. Their customer service track record is very good....hopefully we can get this figured out.
 
#30 ·
Yes, that's very true. And we've posted trouble-shooting tips before on a forum, but they just get buried and we end up taking the questions over again within a few weeks. That's one downside....besides if I don't see the thread....then guys get frustrated and think we have "poor" customer service when I don't chime in because I have no idea the thread exists. :) But I agree that it's still positive for others to see it here too in general.

We are working on a comprehensive trouble-shooting section on our website with video and many different tips. That will be the ideal solution and should be ready by next fall's heater selling season. I know how good they are....just got feedback again yesterday from someone who was thrilled with the unit.

Thanks!
 
#34 ·
Received a call from Scott at Moto A today. He spent a lot of time on the phone with me today and answered all of my questions. He did say that my heater core temp definitely isn't hot enough. We discussed different methods to try to get any more air out of the system. One very good point that he made was about my hose pinch off pliers. He said that they do to good of a job of completely sealing off the hose. He said that I need to try just restricting the hose and not blocking it off completely. By blocking all the flow it doesn't allowed any air bubbles past to get into the radiator.
I just got home from work a little bit ago so I didn't have time to try anything out yet but I think tomorrow I may have some time to give it a go. I will post back here my findings.
 
#35 ·
Another thing we did go over which I expected is that none of these heater systems can produce a crazy amount of heat at idle. You have a small all aluminum engine, large aluminum radiator, and a heater core that acts as another radiator. These things dissipate heat like crazy. Also, the water pumps don't put out much flow at idle. No flow means no fresh supply of hot water to the core. If I can get my heater core temps up a little higher at Rpm I will be satisfied with this system.
 
#36 ·
I was looking at the instructions and what do you think would happen if you were to put a valve just past the inlet "Y". I'm not looking completely close it off and divert all of the hot water through the core...it would probably be too restrictive. But....what if, when using the heater, you could do something to "slightly" restrict the flow on the through line so more hot water went to the heater core?

Looking at the valve that comes with the unit...what if you could put something like that valve just past the inlet "Y". So as you turned the heat knob up...you would be directing more and more hot water to the core.

Hopefully this makes sense :confused:
 
#37 ·
I was looking at the instructions and what do you think would happen if you were to put a valve just past the inlet "Y". I'm not looking completely close it off and divert all of the hot water through the core...it would probably be too restrictive. But....what if, when using the heater, you could do something to "slightly" restrict the flow on the through line so more hot water went to the heater core?

Looking at the valve that comes with the unit...what if you could put something like that valve just past the inlet "Y". So as you turned the heat knob up...you would be directing more and more hot water to the core.

Hopefully this makes sense :confused:
Makes perfect sense. I know exactly what you mean and to be honest I think not only would it work but it would work well. When I was running mine somewhat similar to what you are saying I got really good heat at the core. I guess at that point you would be walking the line of heat for you and not restricting too much and overheating. Obviously motoalliance or any other company for that matter would be foolish to put something like that in a kit due to any liability of trashing a bakers dozen of engines but that would certainly be something that you could come up with on your own. One thing I think that would be critical would be to install a coolant temp gauge so you can monitor exactly whats going on.
The other thing I wonder if there is some sort of small in line water pump that can be put in the loop of the heater core to increase the flow through that system.
 
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